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nagelend geluid : Diesel Specifiek - 3

MBKlassiekerclub.nl

De W123 vraagbaak met techniek en hulp op het forum van en voor W123 liefhebbers

Het is nu 29 maart 2024, 02:21

nagelend geluid

Specifieke zaken omtrent het rijden op diesel kunnen hier geplaatst worden zodat we alle zaken omtrent diesel hier verzameld hebben staan.

Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor Govert » 09 dec 2008, 14:39

Hier heb je nog een plaatje van het persklepje van de MRSF-pomp. Het gaat om de ringetjes 2 en 5. 2 is van rubber. Het veertje is trouwens ook niet zo duur (€ 1), kan in een moeite mee vervangen worden.

De andere onderdelen zijn duurder, die hoeven alleen schoongemaakt te worden.

Vastzetten gaat met 30 Nm, dan los, nogmaals 30 Nm, dan los en dan met 35 Nm.

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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor Govert » 09 dec 2008, 14:41

En hier is het persklepje van de MW-pomp. Een beetje anders en het rubberen ringetje is vervallen. In een keer vastzetten met 40-50 Nm.

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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor han2907 » 22 jan 2009, 00:15

hoi medebenzers

even een tjdje uit de lucht geweest.
ik heb veel hulp gehad van jullie en ben er achter gekomen wat de oorzaak van
het nagelende geluid was.

het euvel is inmiddels verholpen, maar ik wil jullie verslag uitbrengen van mijn
ervaring.

door de compressielektest zijn we erachter gekomen dat de uitlaatklep van de 2e
cilinder niet goed afdichtte.
we hebben toen ook maar direkt besloten de kop te demonteren.

een vriend van mij deed vroeger altijd al zaken met Boensma uit Goor.
hier zijn ze gespecialiseerd in revisie van alles wat maar met een motor te maken heeft.
de eigenaar (gerrit) is gek van Mercedes en met name van W123. dus de klik was er meteen.
hij gaf mij aan dat hij alles netjes in orde zou maken, dat het aan zijn norm moest voldoen, maar hij niet meer zou vervangen dan nodig was.

hier heb ik blindelings op vertrouwd, en mijn vertrouwen is niet misbruikt.

er is een nieuwe klep gemonteerd, alle geleiders zijn verangen, de kleppen en zittingen netjes op elkaar in gefreesd, nieuwe cupjes gemonteerd en we kregen alle benodigde spullen erbij.
t.w. alle pakkingen,nieuwe trekbouten,keurig overzicht met aanhaalmomenten, en de volgorde van werken, en een heleboel gratis adviezen.
de kop vlakken was volgens gerrit niet nodig, want hij was volgens hem nog net zo recht als een nieuwe.

deze super aardige man is een enorme vakidioot.

achter de brandstofpomp lekte ook olie weg, en hij gaf ons exact aan hoe we dit meteen het beste aan konden pakken.
we hebben het hand-opvoerpompje eraf gehaald, een metalen plaatje gemaakt die op de 2 boutgaten paste, en precies een gat in het midden gemaakt, alles op de maat 6mm.

een bout in het middelste gat gedraaid, met een moertje aan de kant van het blok.
hierdoor sluit de bout het nokkenasje in de brandstof pomp op.
een markering op de pomp en het blok gemaakt, zodat deze in exact dezelfde positie terug gezet kan worden.
toen de bouten(4x, ook 1 onder de pomp) losgedraaid en de pomp kan er zo af.!!

pasvlakken goed schoongemaakt, nieuwe pakking ertussen, en weer monteren.

dit alles hebben we natuurlijk wel gedaan nadat de kop weer gemonteerd was, zodat de ketting eerst weer gespannen was om te voorkomen dat de timing zou veranderen.

we hebben heel zorgvuldig gewerkt, en alles schoongemaakt voor montage.
bij demontage hedden we de ketting en het tanwiel op de nokkenas met witte verf
gemarkeerd.

de kop weer gemonteerd, eerst alle bouten op 40 nw vastgedraaid, toen op 70 nw.
toen half uur gewacht (was heel belangrijk volgens gerrit) en daarna nog 2x natrekken op 90 graden.

de motor loopt weer als een zonnetje, geen nagelend geluid meer, en de motor ligt er zo mooi rustig in, je kunt bijna een euro op z'n kant op het kleppendeksel zetten.

voor degene die er nieuwschierig naar zijn, ik moest gerrit € 325,- betalen en een fles Bornse kruidenbitter.

ik kan iedereen deze vakman aanbevelen.

binnenkort hoop ik een treffen mee te kunnen maken, de jaarvergadering van afgelopen zondag lukte niet, want ik had eerst prioriteit in het weer beter maken van onze W123.

groeten, han2907
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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 22 jan 2009, 08:47

Goed en leuk om te lezen.

Was die uitlaatklep dusdanig dat hij niet meer in te frezen/ slijpen was op de zitting? Ik begrijp dat je voorkamers e.d. allemaal nog keurig in orde waren?
Heb je nadien nog een compressiemeting gedaan, tijdens montage?
En heb je een fotootje van dat hulpgereedschapje wat je hebt gemaakt om de pomp vast te zetten?
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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor Wiebren240D » 22 jan 2009, 12:46

Hallo Daar

maar een lekke klep dat hoor je toch zo.
ik wel tenminste.
ga maar achter de auto staan en dan goed naar de uitlaat luisteren als je 1 lekke klep hebt hoor je dat zit een vreemd plofje in.

maar die Boensma dat is echt een goed adres heb ik wel eens handel mee gedaan en wat die man kan vertellen je komt er nooit meer weg.

maar mooi dat je auto het weer goed doet.

groeten van Wiebren ut Snits
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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor han2907 » 22 jan 2009, 21:17

hoi jantje V8

ik heb geen compressie meting na die tijd meer gedaan, ik heb het wel overwogen, maar had zo iets van : als de motor goed loopt is het niet nodig, mocht die niet goed lopen dan kan ik dat alsnog doen.

ik heb ondertussen zoveel van deze motoren horen lopen dat ik ervan overtuigd ben
dat hij nu 100% is.

ik zal proberen een foto van het hulpstukje te maken waar je de brandstofpomp mee vast kunt zetten, ik hoop dat het lukt, maar ben niet zo goed met foto,s.

gr. han
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Re:nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor han2907 » 22 jan 2009, 21:28

hoi wiebren

ik ben ook op zoek geweest naar dat vreemde plofje, maar kon het niet ontdekken.
ook ben ik een beetje op het verkeerde been gezet door de MB monteur die er 100%
van overtuigd was dat het de verstuiver was.

ik had het ook niet in deze richting gezocht, omdat de compressie dat slecht moest zijn, en dat kon ik niet rijmen omdat de auto s.morgens heel vlot startte.

ik heb wel eens Benzen horen starten met slechte compressie, en daar leek het starten van onze Benz totaal niet op

het is gelukkig goed gekomen, en leuk te horen day je met gerrit Boensma ook goede ervaring hebt.

iedereen bedankt voor de hulp, ik heb er veel van opgestoken.

zie uit naar een treffen, is hier al wat over bekend ??

gr. han
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Re: nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor AvV1 » 03 mei 2022, 23:10

Bij onze OM615 motor tijdens en kort na het (slecht) starten af en toe een harde metalen tik. Gloeistift (van 1 jaar oud) nagekeken in de eerste cilinder: puntje eraf gebrand. Andere gloeistift erin: starten en lopen prima. Na een paar tochtjes weer slecht starten, gloeistift eruit en ja hoor, puntje eraf gesmolten en de stift nu ook krom. Nog een nieuwe stift erin: goed starten en lopen. Na 1 tochtje stift weer bekeken: zag er goed uit, behalve veel roetaanslag. Bij starten voor tweede tochtje met deze stift ging starten goed maar was wel even een paar keer die harde metalen tik te horen. Motor liep verder goed, wel wat grijze rook, maar heeft-ie altijd wel een beetje. Na afloop gloeistift weer bekeken: puntje beschadigd (maar niet kapot) en de staaf weer helemaal krom! In de andere cilinders zitten dezelfde gloeiers.

Wat nu?

Wij denken: verstuiver is slecht geweest, slechte verbranding en te hoge temperatuurwisselingen, daardoor balletje in voorkamer losgebroken (en misschien meer van de voorkamer stuk) en veroorzaakt door de compressie schade aan gloeistift. Kan me niet voorstellen dat een gloeistift helemaal krom trekt alleen doordat hij te heet wordt; er lijkt me een mechanische kracht voor nodig.

Dus nu is het idee om de voorkamer te trekken. Maar daarvoor heb je speciaal gereedschap nodig en dat hebben wij niet.
Heel verhaal, met twee vragen:
is voorkamer trekken de logische volgende stap en
Is er iemand die het gereedschap heeft en van wie we dat even kunnen lenen? Ik woon in Woerden en de motor ligt in de boot in Den Helder, dus zou heel fijn zijn als ergens op die lijn het gereedschap te leen is.

met groet,
Arnold
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Re: nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 05 mei 2022, 11:18

Hoi Arnold,

De gloeistift en ook de Prallkugel in de voorkamer kunnen inderdaad beschadigen door een slechte verstuiver.
Je kunt de kogel zien bij een uitgebouwde verstuiver. De kogel kan ver ook los gaan zitten in de voorkamer.

Het trekken van de voorkamer is dus wel een goed idee.
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IMG_0186.JPG
kogel in voorkamer bij uitgebouwde verstuiver en brandplaatje
IMG_0186.JPG (93.92 KiB)


Heb je de verstuivers wel al in orde gebracht? (afpersen, evt nieuwe nozzles?
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IMG_4611.jpg
afpersen 115 bar
IMG_4611.jpg (540.55 KiB)

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IMG_0191.JPG
verstuiver met nieuwe DNOSD220
IMG_0191.JPG (69.59 KiB)


Ik heb wel gereedschap maar leen dit niet graag uit. (en ik woon in Eindhoven).
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IMG_4666.jpg
voorkamer trekken
IMG_4666.jpg (106.99 KiB)


Hier zie je bijvoorbeeld een (roestige) kogel in een voorkamer
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groot voorkamer IMG_4675.jpg
Voorkamer (OM621)
groot voorkamer IMG_4675.jpg (426.12 KiB)


De Snelgloeiers kunnen ook te warm worden en stuk gaan. Dit kan met name wanneer je doorgloeit wanneer de motor al loopt. Sommige gloeiers zijn intern beveiligd met een extra weerstandsspiraal. Dit zal met name bij de duurdere BERU gloeiers zo zijn.
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IMG_6255.jpg
snelgloeier FEBI
IMG_6255.jpg (98.78 KiB)


Groeten en succes!
Math
Das Beste oder Nichts!
Avatar gebruiker
Weizengelb
Platinum Boarder
Platinum Boarder
 
Berichten: 2689
Geregistreerd: 20 jan 2006, 13:38
Woonplaats: Eindhoven
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 220D
Bouwjaar: 1972
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor AvV1 » 29 mei 2022, 21:37

Bedankt voor de reacties. Ik wil even laten weten hoe dit is afgelopen: de voorkamer is vervangen, verstuiver gereviseerd, nieuwe gloeistift en de motor loopt inmiddels weer prima. Voorkamer ging er erg lastig uit en voor onze OM615.940 motor blijken er twee typen voorkamer te zijn: een met een afgeronde punt en een met een schuin afgevlakte punt. Ik had de afgeronde en die was gelukkig nieuw te verkrijgen.
groeten, Arnold
AvV1
Fresh Boarder
Fresh Boarder
 
Berichten: 3
Geregistreerd: 02 mei 2022, 22:56
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 200D
Bouwjaar: 1975
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: nagelend geluid

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 31 mei 2022, 20:43

Bedankt Arnold voor het terugmelden!

Was de voorkamer duidelijk beschadigd?
Hoe was de verstuiver er aan toe?

Groeten Math
Das Beste oder Nichts!
Avatar gebruiker
Weizengelb
Platinum Boarder
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Berichten: 2689
Geregistreerd: 20 jan 2006, 13:38
Woonplaats: Eindhoven
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 220D
Bouwjaar: 1972
Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee

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