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Slecht starten bij min temp OM617 : Diesel Specifiek

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Het is nu 01 mei 2024, 00:34

Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Specifieke zaken omtrent het rijden op diesel kunnen hier geplaatst worden zodat we alle zaken omtrent diesel hier verzameld hebben staan.

Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 15:32

Even een korte vraag. Mijn auto rijdt in principe goed, motor trekt goed, klinkt redelijk goed, geen bijgeluidjes etc..olieverbruik is ook niet noemenswaardig en geen waterverbruik. Starten onder normale omstandigheden is als een bezineauto, in een split second is ie aangeslagen.
Wat me afgelopen week verbaasde is dat ie maanadgochtend half 7 niet wou starten?! Het was wel net iets onder de nul graden maar ook geen -20! Eerste poging was bijna raak maar net niet, daarna draaide de motor ook een stuk langzamer en was alles tevergeefs.

Einde van de middag weer geprobeerd en toen sloeg ie wel aan?? Ik heb een multimeter geleend gisteren en einde middag was ie voor starten op 12.7V en gelijk na starten ietsje meer 12,8. Na een kort ritje stond ie op 13.7 of zo. De accu is iets van 82Ah of 85Ah(ben het vergeten).

Als de motor wel start en het is flink koud dan wil ie ook gelijk uit gaan als ik het gaspedaal los laat. Maar dat komt waarschijnlijk door dat de choke knop niet veel doet, ik heb geprobeerd eraan te draaien met draaiende motor maar ik hoor geen verschil in toeren. Of is er nog iets wat een dieselmotor stationair laat draaien bij koude start?

Het lampje van de gloeiers gaat netjes aan/uit. Ook blijft het lampje niet branden bij draaiende motor, dus dan zouden de gloeiers toch goed moeten zijn?? Ik weet niet wat voor type gloeirs erin zitten, zal nog een foto maken en hier posten.
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Bob » 16 maart 2013, 15:44

Wat is de accus panning tijdens het starten ?? Tenslotte moet dan de stroom lopen.

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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 16:02

Dat was een beetje lastig in mn eentje :D Als het belangrijk is zal ik vragen of iemand mij komt helpen?
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Govert » 16 maart 2013, 16:42

Je kan meten via de sigarenaansteker of je doet de motorkap open, verbind de multimeter met krokodilbekjes met de accu, dan kan je de multimeter aflezen door de voorruit.

Ik zou de electrische verbindingen even nalopen/schoonmaken, vooral de massakabel.

Het direct uitvallen na het starten is niet ongewoon, maar dat is te voorkomen door een beetje gas te geven zodra je oliedruk hebt.

De kabel van het stationair toerentalverhoger kan je afstellen: de kabel moet strak staan als de knop niet bediend wordt. Onder de motorkap je het kabeltje zo zien zitten (als de kabel nog aangesloten is tenminste).
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 16:47

Ik heb geen krokodilbekjes op de MM. Ik zal het eens zo meteen proberen en laat het weten.
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor PeDe » 16 maart 2013, 20:29

Wat voor motorolie zit erin? Wellicht te 'dikke'.....
Ik had dezelfde 'problemen' vorige winter met de barre temperaturen van rond de -20.
Mijn olie was dikke pap; stroop. Starten, ho maar, helemaal niet gewend!
Oliefilter en de 15w40 vervangen door 10w40; helemaal goed nu.
Inderdaad, de stationair draaiknop heb je wel nodig, of handmatig/voetmatig een beetje gas bijgeven in het begin.

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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 20:39

Ik heb net eventjes mn koplampen verwisseld en de accuspanning opgemeten. In principe zakt de accuspanning zelfs naar 11, nog wat bij ingeschakelde gloeiers om daarna direct naar 13 nog wat te gaan bij draaiende motor. Heb er ook een filmpje van gemaakt welke ik aan het upoaden ben. Zal de link zometeen plaatsen.
Olie..er zit idd te dikke olie in, 20-60 uit mn hoofd. Monteur dacht dat de goeie was?! Gezien het toen zomer was met temps ver boven de 30 vond ik het niet zo erg. En ik heb de auto al maanden niet gereden dus dat was ook niet zo erg tijdens de winter. Maar kan dat zo'n invloed hebben dan?
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 21:17

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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Govert » 16 maart 2013, 21:23

Volgens het KNMI was de minimumtemperatuur -2,6ºC op 11 maart in Rotterdam, dat is inderdaad niet erg koud, maar 20W-60 olie is dan niet meer geschikt. Die mag gebruikt worden tot 0ºC. Je hebt kans dat de olie erg dik was. 20W60 olie is geschikt voor klassiekers die alleen in de zomer rijden. De dieselmotor is al lastig rond te slingeren, met dikke olie wordt dan nog moeilijker.

10–11 V tijdens starten en gloeien is niet vreemd en wijst niet op electrische problemen. Controleer wel alle electrische aansluitingen: maak de massakabel even los en maak de aansluitingen schoon. Controleer de aansluitingen op de startmotor en de ook van de gloeibougies.
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 16 maart 2013, 22:34

Of het zal een combinatie zijn van alles. Koud, dikke olie, accu niet meer nieuw. Ik heb ook de gloeiers bekeken. En vanaf het kastje op de linker wielkast loopt een kabelboom met naar elke gloeibougie een aparte kabel. Dat zijn dan de snelgloeiers? En hoe controleer/meet ik die?
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Govert » 16 maart 2013, 23:28

Dat zijn inderdaad snelgloeiers. Je meet ze op weerstand, zo tussen de 0,7 en 1 Ω is goed, oneindige weerstand is niet goed.

Nu kunnen de gloeiers wel een goede weerstand hebben, maar niet gloeien op de juiste plaats (aan de tip), dat kan je alleen controleren door de gloeiers te verwijderen en te testen uit de motor door er 12V op te zetten. Let op: die gloeiers worden zeer heet en pas op met stroom uit een accu.

Maak die stekkertjes van het gloeirelais ook schoon en controleer ook de zekering (plaatje onder de kap van het relais).
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 17 maart 2013, 00:28

Het is mn eigen schuld dat ik niet juist heb vermeld hoe onhandig ik ben met electra. De volts opmeten kan ik nog, heb het geleerd toen ik een storing had met mn engelse motorfiets. En ik weet dat je de MM op ohm's kan zetten voor weerstand, en op Ampere's 'A'.
Kan je me in het kort(dummy variant) uitleggen waar ik de + en - van de MM moet plaatsen om de weerstand te meten. Ik moet zeggen dat het er allemaal nog goed en recentelijk vernieuwd uit zag. Maar zal alles nog even los en goed vastdraaien.

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Saw123
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Govert » 17 maart 2013, 01:12

Het snelste gaat als je de stekker losmaakt bij het gloeirelais, dat is de stekker met de draden naar de gloeiers. Die stekker zit onder de kap van het gloeirelais. In de stekker zitten vijf aansluitingen in, voor iedere gloeier één. Je zet de multimeter op ohm (Ω) op een bereik waar 1 Ω inzit (dit verschilt per multimeter). Als je nu de rode en de zwarte draad tegen elkaar houdt, moet je ongeveer 0 Ω zien, nu weet je dat de multimeter goed werkt. Steek nu de rode draad in een verbinding in de stekker (zodat het contact maakt) en houdt de zwarte draad tegen een metalen gedeelte van de motor, bijvoorbeeld de injectorleidingen of het brandstoffilterhuis. Nu kan je de weerstand van de gloeier aflezen.

Heb je oneindige weerstand (multimeter geeft dan niets aan of de wijzer beweegt niet), controleer dan of de aansluiting (zie pijl op de foto) nog goed vastzit. Je kan de gloeier dan ook rechtstreeks testen, door de rode draad tegen het schroefdraadje van de gloeier te houden.

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gloeieraansluiting.png
gloeieraansluiting.png (1.21 MiB)


In de WIS staat een uitgebreid testprogramma van het gloeisysteem beschreven:
http://Mercedes.thatchermathias.com/Ind ... neElec.htm
Daar werkje 15-510, voor jouw systeem sectie F.
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Govert
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Re: Slecht starten bij min temp OM617

Berichtdoor Saw123 » 20 maart 2013, 22:49

Ik heb er een poging aan gewaagd gisteren. En mbv de multimeter geprobeerd de gloeiers door te meten. In principe ben ik er niet zeker van of het allemaal gelukt is want het begon al met de MM, met de rode + zwarte aan elkaar kwam ik bijna op NUL uit, scheelde een paar honderste. Maar daarna met het doormeten kreeg ik ook verschillende resultaten, afhankelijk van hoe ik contact maakt steeg of daalde de waarde, en dan varierend vanaf NUL tot ..
Maar een rondje kreeg ik wel allemaal resultaten welke juist lijken, 0.56 - 0.57 ohm alle 5, en dan via de stekker gemeten. Ik zal vrijdag eens kijken voor een nieuwe MM die wat accurater is.
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