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Vliegwiel : Techniek

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Het is nu 29 maart 2024, 16:46

Vliegwiel

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Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 09 dec 2010, 15:17

Sommigen weten van mijn 200D die het niet goed meer deed vanwege te weinig compressie. Ik ben deze week bezig een andere motor te installeren (kost wel effe wat werk). Nu heb ik bijna alles overgezet wat overgezet moet worden. Ik heb alleen een vraag. Het vliegwiel van de 240 motor is dieper dan van de 200. Aangezien de versnellingsbak wel de oude blijft (is nog goed) moet ik dus het vliegwiel overzetten met de koppeling. Zijn deze vliegwielen uitgebalanceerd waardoor dit niet zou kunnen? Of maakt het niet uit? Of moet ik de nokkenassen gelijk zetten en dan overplaatsen?

graag jullie advies
Merc200
 


Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 09 dec 2010, 17:13

Dit begrijp ik even niet goed omdat koppeling, koppelingshuis en versnellingsbakken van de 200 en de 240 bij mijn weten niet van elkaar afwijken.
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Martin123T » 09 dec 2010, 17:47

Bijlagen
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verchil vliegwielen.JPG
Verschil vliegwielen OM617 tov OM615-616
verchil vliegwielen.JPG (21.22 KiB)
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 09 dec 2010, 17:58

Het is een 616 motor, maar hij heeft in een 470 busje gezeten. Misschien dat dit het verschil verklaart? De configuratie is in sommige onderdelen al wat anders (bijv het oliefilterhuis wijst naar beneden, het kleppendeksel heeft een vuldop met een buis, het brandstoffilter staat iets anders. Het past allemaal perfect, alleen dus het vliegwiel) Op het plaatje van Martin123T is in ieder geval te zien dat het vliegwiel dieper is, zoals ook bij de aangekochte 616 motor. Mijn vraag dus of ik die van de 200 er op kan zetten en of die gebalanceerd is op de stand van de zuigers? Of maakt het niet uit in welke posities de zuigers staan tov het vliegwiel?
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Martin123T » 09 dec 2010, 18:00

Bijlagen
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markering vliegwiel.JPG
markering vliegwiel.JPG (52.15 KiB)
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 09 dec 2010, 19:10

Dat is duidelijk. Thanx! Ga morgen even controleren of er idd een markering te vinden is. Dat is wat makkelijker overzetten. Ik houdt jullie op de hoogte van het resultaat.
Merc200
 


Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Citrobenz » 09 dec 2010, 20:43

Wat ik gehoord heb kan het vliegwiel van een diesel er maar op 1 manier op
waarschijnlijk zit er dus een pasvlak/pen op

Normaal gesproken zijn vliegwielen gewoon uitgebalanceerd
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Rupsje Nooitgenoeg » 09 dec 2010, 21:08

Heb je al geprobeerd of de bak er niet gewoon achter past? Een bak die onder een 200D zit past namelijk ook op de 220, 240 en de 300! Dus ik zou eerst gaan passen voordat ik dat vliegwiel eraf zou trekken.
De dieseltjes hebben allemaal dezelfde bak..

Groeten Jeroen
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Citrobenz » 09 dec 2010, 21:48

Jeroen weet jij toevallig ook of de bak van een W123 200D op een W115 diesel past?
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Rupsje Nooitgenoeg » 09 dec 2010, 22:13

Ik durf het niet met zekerheid te zeggen, maar ik denk het wel. Het zal in ieder geval wel passen als je eentje hebt met een trekstarter, die blokken zijn op een paar dingen na hetzelfde. Het vliegwielhuis is geloof ik niet aangepast. Ik zou de gok zeker nemen.

Groeten Jeroen
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Citrobenz » 09 dec 2010, 22:20

Oke bedankt
Ik ga het binnenkort eens bekijken
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Govert » 10 dec 2010, 01:40

Het vliegwiel van een Mercedes diesel is gebalanceerd met de krukas en de triilingsdemper. Bij de 300D is het zelfs gebalanceerd met de hele motor. Je kan dus niet zomaar vliegwielen gaan uitwisselen, zoals hierboven staat. Als je vliegwielen gaat wisselen, moet je dezelfde balans aanbrengen op het nieuwe vliegwiel, dat kan je het beste laten doen door een revisiebedrijf.
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor RoelH » 10 dec 2010, 10:17

Op de WIS-cd pagina 03-440 staat dat bij een 200D en 240D het vliegwiel samen met de krukas en het het kleine vliegwiel aan de voorkant samen gebalanceerd zijn. Bij een 300D is zelfs de hele motor in zijn geheel gebalanceerd om de trillingen te beperken.
Als je dus je vliegwiel wil vervangen moet je om trillingen te voorkomen de onbalans van het originele vliegwiel kopieren naar het nieuwe vliegwiel. Dat is een vrij nauwkeurige klus, ik heb het zelf gedaan voor mijn 300D omdat ik een automaat bak achter een handbak-motor heb gehangen. Het blanceren koste mij 3 uur omdat ik het nog nooit gedaan heb en zeker wilde weten dat ik het goed deed. Een ervaren persoon moet het in 1 uur kunnen. Echter het lastigste is dat je een as moet hebben waar je beide vliegwielen op kan plaatsen en een perfect vlakke en horizontale balanceersopstelling.
Zie de foto van mijn opstelling. Ik heb een geslepen as gekocht en de bevestigings flenzen laten draaiten. Op een meettafel op mijn werk heb ik een opstelling gemaakt, eerst de as gebalanceerd en daarna het vliegwiel onbalans gekopieerd.
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PICT4975.JPG
PICT4975.JPG (150.46 KiB)

Ik moest 19 gram materiaal weghalen en de onbalans zat op een heel andere plaats op het vliegwiel. Zou ik hem zo over hebben gezet dat was mijn auto een hobbelpaart zijn geworden.

Succes,
Roel
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 10 dec 2010, 13:38

Ik doe wel eens de messen van maai machines balanceren, en in plaats van weghalen voeg ik juist materiaal toe door hele kleine laspropjes bij te zetten. Weghalen kan altijd nog.

Lang geleden deed ik nogal wat prutsen met radiografische vliegtuigen. De proppellers van helicopters deden we ook balanceren, ook door gewicht toe te voegen. Alleen niet lassen, maar hele kleine likjes vernis aanbrengen.
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 10 dec 2010, 23:17

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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Govert » 10 dec 2010, 23:25

De as van de versnellingsbak is toch lang genoeg om dikkere en dunnere vliegwielen op te vangen? Je hoeft echt de vliegwielen niet te veranderen omdat de versnellingsbak/koppeling niet zou passen. Als er echt een probleem is, dan los je dat op door een tussenplaat.

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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 11 dec 2010, 14:08

de as inderdaad wel, maar ik dacht dat de versnellingsbak niet diep genoeg zou zijn ivm het diepere vliegwiel. Met een tussenplaat bedoel je een plaat tussen de versnellingsbak en het blok neem ik aan? Wordt de as dan niet te kort?
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Merc200 » 11 dec 2010, 14:14

Zoals hieronder te zien op de foto. die diepte bedoel ik dus.
Bijlagen
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versnellingsbak W123.jpg
versnellingsbak W123.jpg (129.8 KiB)
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Govert » 12 dec 2010, 00:20

Die spie van de versnellingsbak steekt in de koppelingsplaat. Je ziet dat daar wel wat ruimte is om een dikker of dunner vliegwiel op te vangen.

De Getrag-versnellingsbakken hadden standaard een tussenplaat als ik me goed herinner, inderdaad tussen de motor en de versnellingsbak.

Maar zoals gezegd zou er geen verschil moeten zijn tussen het vliegwiel van een 200D en een 240D.
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Re: Vliegwiel

Berichtdoor Martin123T » 12 dec 2010, 10:19

Merc200, je hebt een OM616.910 gekocht, een 65 PK uitvoering in de LKW-uitvoering. Het vliegwiel van dit blok lijkt qua maatvoering verdacht veel op het vliegwiel van een OM617 uit een W123. Als je de plaatjes hierboven bekijkt, dan kun je vaststellen dat de positie van koppelingsplaat en drukgroep niet zal wijzigen t.o.v. de prise-as (uitgaande van het feit dat dezelfde tussenplaat wordt gebruikt). Het enige probleem is de hoogte van de 'kraag' van het vliegwiel, een verschil van 16 mm.

Het is een kwestie van meten: de maat opmeten van de 'zwarte lijn tussen de gele pijltjes'. Vervolgens meet je hoever het vliegwiel uitsteekt t.o.v. het pasvlak van de tussenplaat. Omdat het vliegwiel samen met krukas en trillingsdemper is gebalanceerd, verdient het dus de voorkeur op het originele vliegwiel te gebruiken. Als dit onverhoopt niet zou passen; ik ken mensen die probleemloos een willekeurige krukas en vliegwiel hebben toegepast, zonder te letten op de balancering. Je zou dus de gok kunnen wagen....
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