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gloeisysteem om616 : Techniek - 2

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Het is nu 19 apr 2024, 10:21

gloeisysteem om616

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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 20:01

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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor RD500sec » 12 okt 2014, 20:14

Je vergeet nu de weerstandsdraden, daar komt ook spanning over te staan.
0,9 + x + 0,9 + x +0,9 + x + 0,9 = 12 volt
Over de drie weerstandsdraden x staat 8,4 volt : 3 = 2,8 volt per stuk.
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 20:22

Aha dus 12 volt is dus toch goed op de de toevoer draad. En is 2.8 volt dan niet teveel aangezien die 0.9 volt op de bougie? En dat spiraal op mn schutbord is dus alleen voor mn lampje? Ik wil toch nog even benadrukken wat fijn dat ik zoveel reacties krijg. Ik ben 26 jaar dus de auto is ouder dan mij. De voorkamers vervangen was al zoeken voor me dus ik hoop dankzij het forum straks ook iemand te kunnen helpen!
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor Govert » 12 okt 2014, 20:24

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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 20:31

Dat denk ik ook! Het lampje brand zodra de metaaltjes tegen elkaar komen en als dat spiraal warm word uit elkaar gaan. Is allemaal maar gissen hoor maar dat leek me logisch. En ik dacht dan ook dat het spiraal weerstand gaf.
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 20:33

Kijk dan kan ik ook nog eens leren meten. Er piept er maar 1 dus dan kan er vanuit gaan dat de andere drie niet meer goed zijn?
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor RD500sec » 12 okt 2014, 20:40

die conclusie zou ik wel trekken, er vanuit gaande dat met meten alles goed is gegaan.
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 20:51

En het spiraal onder de kap is alleen voor mn lampje? Dan begin ik me af te vragen wat nu het probleem is? Zouden de bougies slecht xontact gehad hebben. Bijvoorbeeld dat bougie 1 slecht contact had en de rest teveel spanning kreeg. Dit zou eigenlijk niet moeten kunnen in serie. Het word steeds moeilijker zo!
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 21:04

Deze gedachten komt, omdat ik het eerst boutje op de bougie waar ook de toevoer op zit niet echt vast vond zitten.
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor Govert » 12 okt 2014, 21:48

Het zou heel goed dat de spiraal met het bimetaal alleen dient om het gloeilampje aan te sturen, misschien dat er ook nog wat weerstand wordt gegeven. Je kan voor de aardigheid meten wat het verschil is tussen accuspanning rechtstreeks op de accu gemeten en de spanning op de gloeidraad.

Bij losse contacten gebeurt er niets, dat wil zeggen dat er niet gegloeid wordt. Er brandt ook niets door, want er is geen circuit. Alleen bij kortsluiting branden er gloeispiralen door. De stroom loopt dan niet door vier gloeiers en weerstandsspiralen, maar door bijvoorbeeld maar twee spiralen en dan naar massa (als de kortsluiting bij gloeispiraal nr. 2 is). Kortsluiting kan ontstaan doordat het binnenwerk van de gloeispiraal verschuifd ten opzichte van het omhulsel. De aansluiting komt dan in aanraking met de massa. Andere mogelijkheid is koolafzettingen in de voorkamer.

Gloeispiralen kunnen ook doorbranden door slechte verstuivers.

Zijn trouwens de problemen ontstaan na vervanging van de voorkamers? Wat was er eigenlijk mis met die voorkamers?
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 12 okt 2014, 22:02

Neej de problemen zijn eigenlijk spontaan gekomen. Het vervangen van de voorkamers heb ik gedaan om storingen te voorkomen. Het zijn trouwens niet allemaal nieuwe. Maar bij de eerste voorkamer was de injector versleten en hierdoor was dat asje met bolletje weg gebrand. Dus heb ik de nozzels van de injectoren laten vervangen en de eerste voorkamer geheel vervangen. Nog een andere kamer vertrouwde ik niet omdat het asje al speling had. De andere heb ik schoongemaakt en gecontroleerd maar die waren nog goed.
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 13 okt 2014, 12:01

Als ik nou andere bougies ga halen, en ik monteer alles weer.
Even alles op een rijtje:

Wat moet ik dan tussen mijn bougies meten?
Wat moet ik op de eerste bougie meten?
Wat staat er over de spiralen?
Kan ik het systeem controleren komt het op neer?

Ik zat ook nog te denken nadat ik de voorkamers heb gecontroleerd.
Toen is er nog een bougie gesmolten zou er nog een stukje in de voorkamer kunnen liggen? wat sluiting maakt? Of verbrand dit gelijk?

Zal ik de voorkamers nogmaals demonteren en controleren? Voor eventuele stukjes bougie?
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor Bram Jansen » 13 okt 2014, 13:31

Niels,

Uiteraard volg ik je topic.
Ben er niet zo'n voorstander van maar misschien is het handig voor eventuele hulp als je de regio waar je woont, tijdelijk even in je profiel zet. Misschien kun je dan ook praktisch geholpen worden.
Als je probleem is opgelost wel weer weghalen.

Lex
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 13 okt 2014, 18:56

Ik heb even mijn regio erin gezet. Ik had goede hoop om informatie zoals spanningen of stroomkringschema's te kunnen onderzoeken. Maar het blijkt toch iets meer ingewikkeld. :think: Weet niemand waar ik precies wat moet meten? Of waar dat weerstand apparaat voor dient onder de kap? of ik dit moet meerekenen als weerstand?

Groetjes,
Niels
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor Govert » 13 okt 2014, 22:30

1. Controleer de gloeiers of ze niet zijn onderbroken. Het onderstaande plaatje geeft aan hoe de stroom loopt door een gloeier. Een contact zit bovenaan, bij nr. 1 en 7, de stroom loopt door de gloeidraad nr. 6 naar nr. 3, waar de draad nr. 1 naar de volgende gloeier gaat. Tussen in zit isolator nr. 10.

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gloei.png
gloei.png (236.26 KiB)


2. Als ze allemaal goed zijn kan je ze monteren. Officieel moet je de voorkamers schoonmaken door een ruimer te gebruiken. Dat is een binnendraadtrekker, waarbij de groeven zijn gevuld met vet. Die draai je voorzichtig in de opening en weer er uit. Nu heb je roet uit de voorkamer verwijderd. Als de voorkamers al hebt schoongemaakt, dan is het niet echt nodig. Stukjes oude gloeidraad verbranden niet automatisch in de voorkamer, je kan eventueel met een kleine magneet proberen of je nog wat uit de voorkamer kan verwijderen.

3. De werking van het systeem kan je hieronder zien. Nr. 5 is de gloeibewaker op het dashboard, die heb je niet, dus bij jou is het simpeler. Er zit wel die spiraal plus bi-metaal in het circuit om het gloeilampje aan te sturen, maar dat is voor het gloeien niet zo interessant. In het originele systeem wordt tijdens het starten de gloeibewaker nog overbrugd, maar dat is bij jou niet zo. Bij de laatste gloeier is er een connectie met de massa, door middel van een stropje die aan het motorblok vastzit.

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glow_operation.jpg (52.36 KiB)


4. Als je de gloeiers hebt gemonteerd en de verbindende weerstandsdraden, maar zonder het laatste stropje en zonder de voedingsdraad, dan kan je controleren of het gloeicircuit geen contact met de massa maakt. Dat doe je door een weerstandsmeting tussen een weerstandsdraad tegen de massa. Je moet geen piep horen.

5. Nu kan je gloeien. Je meet dan met een amperetang de hoeveelheid stroom die door het circuit loopt. Dat doe je door de tang rond de kabel naar de eerste gloeier te houden. Je meet 50-55A. Haal je dan niet en je accu is goed, dan meet je de spanningsval per gloeier. Zie onderstaand plaatje hoe en waar je moet meten.

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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 13 okt 2014, 22:48

Govert,
Wat een waanzinnig goede uitleg! Hier heb ik me op verheugd! Nu kan ik weer aan de slag! Ik ga van de week nieuwe bougies bestellen en alles uitwerken zoals er staat! Als ik hier iets afwijkend aan vind! Zal ik het direct melden! Super bedankt! Ook de andere leden! Ik hou jullie op de hoogte en zal zelf met mn kennis ook iedereen proberen te helpen!

Groeten niels!
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor RD500sec » 14 okt 2014, 14:47

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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor hymermobil » 14 okt 2014, 15:23

hymermobil
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor RD500sec » 14 okt 2014, 16:32

Wanneer meet je de 12 volt?
Met het hele gloeisysteem aangesloten of niet ?
Met het gloeisysteem aangesloten zou je 9,5-10,5 volt verwachten.
Zit het gloeisysteem nog niet helemaal aangesloten is 12 volt een normale waarde.

Meet de spanning voor en na de gloeibewaker eens, meet je dezelfde waarde heeft de gloeibewaker geen weerstand.
Meet je voor de bewaker een hogere spanning dan erna dan heeft hij weerstand.
Ik verwacht het laatste.

Als het lampje het nooit gedaan heeft, en het lampje is goed, dan zou de draad ernaar toe (tussen gloeibewaker en lampje) een breuk kunnen hebben, (of de isolatie is doorgeschuurd en ligt aan massa) of het lampje maakt geen massa. Of de contacten van het lampje of de fitting zijn gecorrodeerd.
Of het stekkertje bij de gloeibewaker maakt geen contact, haal het eens los en sluit het met een hulpdraadje aan op de + van de accu, het lampje zou nu moeten branden, als bovenstaande is gecontroleerd.

het doorbranden van de gloeispiralen en het niet branden van het lampje staan volgens mij niet los van elkaar, het lampje is aangesloten na de gloeibewaker via een reed contact en brand als er stroom loopt door het spoeltje (veervormige draad) waar het reed contact inzit, gedurende de gloeitijd. Door het elektromagneetveld van het spoeltje gaat het reedcontact geleiden en het lampje branden. Het lampje brand dus alleen als er stroom loopt, dus tijdens het gloeien als de gloeispiralen heel zijn.
Als het reedcontact defect is zal het lampje het ook niet doen, dan staat het wel los van elkaar.

Groet Richard
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Re: gloeisysteem om616

Berichtdoor Govert » 15 okt 2014, 22:54

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