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Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123 : Techniek

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Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

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Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 31 okt 2019, 22:23

Beste forumleden,
De laatste tijd had ik het idee dat het wat langer duurde voordat de motor lekker oppakt/ ophoud met inhouden.
Nu viel me vandaag op dat de winterstand klep vooraan de luchtinlaat open staat, buiten temp was een graad of 10. De vacuumslang bleef aan mn tong plakken. Kan het zijn dat het membraam defect is of hoort de klep pas bij een lagere temperatuur dicht te gaan. Ik heb voor het starten 2 x het gas ingetrapt( koudstartfunctie zou dus gestart moeten zijn.

In dien het het membraam is, hoe krijg je die open, ik zie geen schroeven en lijkt 1 geheel met de aanzuig'unit'

Dank voor de reacties,
Groet Guido
Guido
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 31 okt 2019, 23:23

De koudstartfunctie of eigenlijk automatische choke zit alleen in de carburateur. Dat is een bimetaal met een paar trappen waarmee hij simpelweg het gas verder open zet afhankelijk van de temperatuur en heeft niks te maken met met aanzuigmembraan bij het luchtfilter, die wordt weer apart geregeld door het vacuüm systeem. Ik denk dat hij bij 10C nog niet dicht hoort te gaan, maar dat weet ik niet zeker. De hotspot in het spruitstuk werkt wel naar behoren? Het hoort allemaal in harmonie te werken natuurlijk.

Ik heb hem nog nooit open gehad, maar zit ie niet met clips?

De vraag is of het inhouden überhaupt hiermee te maken heeft. Hij loopt wel verhoogd stationair bij een koude start met deze temperaturen?
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Jeroen » 01 nov 2019, 11:32

Ik weet niet hoe het zit op de M115, ik heb een M102 en heb laatst de inlaatluchthermostaat vervangen. Simpel karweitje

Zie:

warm-loud-lucht-schuif-t22588.html

Succes ermee

Jeroen
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 01 nov 2019, 12:19

Ha Max,

Ik heb geen idee of de andere klep ( je bedoeld die in het spruitstuk zit en warme lucht langs inlaat spruitstuk laat gaan toch) werkt. Hoe kun je dit checken?

De automatische shoke werkt helaas niet. ( nooit gedaan bij mij) ik heb geprobeerd het aan de praat te krijgen, is me nog niet gelukt. De 'stroom'stekker is bij bij ook afgedopt dus heb het vermoeden dat men dit in het verleden niet zonder reden heeft gedaan. Ik kan proberen wat ie doet als ik deze aansluit, maar ben bang iets verkeerds te doen wat mogelijk tot schade resulteerd.

Op zicht was er in de voorgaande winters mee te rijden,ook met - 10 gewoon even wat warmer laten lopen en dan rustig aan tot ie op bedrijfstemp was.

Ik heb nu het idee dat ondanks dat de temp meter ruim op 80 graden staat, ie onderin het toeren gebied eerder 'smoort' en het langer duurt voordat ie echt goed oppakt. Het viel me ( ook vanmorgen met rond de 3 graden buiten temperatuur op) dat de klep op zomerstand blijft staan. Dit was in het verleden niet zo.

Weet jij wellicht waar dat witte ''potje'wat in je rechtervoorscherm gemonteerd zit, waar de vacuumslang die naar de bewuste zomer/winterklep gaat voor dient? Is dat wellicht een thermostaat?

@jeroen, dit lijkt inderdaad hetzelfde euvel maar dan andersom;-) al ziet het er bij de M115 geheel anders uit. Heb jij verschil gemerkt in rijden nu de klep bij jou goed functioneerd?

Dank voor jullie reacties tot dusver!
Guido
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 01 nov 2019, 18:28

"Weet jij wellicht waar dat witte ''potje'wat in je rechtervoorscherm gemonteerd zit, waar de vacuumslang die naar de bewuste zomer/winterklep gaat voor dient? Is dat wellicht een thermostaat?"

Heb je daar een foto van? Mijn auto heeft dat namelijk niet.

Automatische choke is volledig mechanisch en je kan heel makkelijk zien of ie werkt. Zit tussen het starthuis en de carburateur een spleet, daar moet je in rust een palletje in het midden zien zitten, als je koud (motor uit) even het gasmechaniek heen en weer haalt zou deze naar rechts moeten springen en daar moeten blijven staan.

Die stekker is van de elektrische verwarming van het bimetaal, die tegelijkertijd ook door het koelwater wordt verwarmd. Hiermee gaat hij weer van de choke af. Dat gaat dus nu sowieso minder snel.
Laatst bijgewerkt door MBreed op 01 nov 2019, 19:52, in totaal 1 keer bewerkt.
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 01 nov 2019, 19:45

Zo hoort het eruit te zien, voor alle M115's. De voeler zit in je luchtfilterhuis. Over de temperaturen had ik geen gelijk. Hij hoort onder de 30C(in motorruimte) dicht te gaan
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Koude start 1.jpg
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 01 nov 2019, 19:49

Hier nog wat literatuur. o.a. klep in spruitstuk

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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 01 nov 2019, 20:38

Dank je wel Max! Dit is zeer bruikbare informatie! Waar heb je deze afbeeldingen vandaan? Ik heb een ownersmanual( engels) maar deze details ontbreken toch echt.

Blijkt toch dat die klep nu wel op standje winter zou moeten staan. Ik vermoed dat dat potje wat ik bedoelde inderdaad de temperatuurvoeler is. ( als ik het schema van de vacuumslangen goed begrijp..Zal zo een poging doen om een foto te uploaden.. en sowieso het luchtfilterhuis van binnen eens onderzoeken.

Mijn ervaring met het palletje op de choke naar rechts bewegen met een schroevendraaier was dat er zo leek het niets gebeurde. Ik had verwacht dat het toerental zou stijgen, ik zal hier binnenkort toch nog weer eens induiken, wellicht moet ik het chokehuis iets verdraaien.wel goed om te weten dat de stroom erop puur voor verwarming is. ( het huisje is binnen no time heet door de koelwaterslangen inderdaad)

Het lijkt er op dat bij mij bij de heizekleppe in ieder geval aan de buitenzijde ( links op het asje) eea ontbreekt :S er komt alleen een as je uit, daar zit een gleuf in waardoor zo lijkt het een veerelement oid opgeschoven kan worden.
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 01 nov 2019, 21:07

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20191101_200226.jpg
20191101_200226.jpg (318.43 KiB)
Hierbij een foto van dat potje op het scherm. Wat zou dit zijn, temperatuursensor( dat ie bij de mijne niet in het luchtfilterhuis zit?)
Guido
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 01 nov 2019, 21:56

Hmm, hij staat niet in het schema, het is een latere serie dan. Maar goed, dit kan je eenvoudig testen. Dit is een elektronisch klepje(geen voeler), gestuurd door een voeler die (in de stalen stang onder het luchtfilter zit? Als ik het hoed onthouden heb). Je kan met 12v testen of het klepje open en dicht gaat. Zo ja grote kans dat je voeler stuk is. Het voelertje wordt geschakeld over de massa. Als je die doorverbindt moet het klepje schakelen
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 02 nov 2019, 12:28

Volgens mij is het een serie 1? Hij is van maart 78.
Goed onthouden, er zit inderdaad iets met een stekkertje aan de stalen beugel van het luchtfilterhuis. (ik had dat nooit als temperatuur voeler herkend)
Het stekkertje heeft 2 polen, vanuit de draad waar de stekker aan zit gaat ook nog een bruine (aarde) vast aan de beugel van het luchtfilterhuis.
Is het simpelweg de polen van de stekker met elkaar doorverbinden? Als dat zo is, dat had geen resultaat. Deed ik het fout, of zou dan toch het elektronischeklepje defect zijn?

Heb nog even gekeken naar de Heizklappenwelle ( wat een woord). Aan de linkerkant van de as zit inderdaad geen mechaniek/veer zoals in de beschrijving en bij jou waarschijnlijk wel het geval is. Ben bang dat dat ivm defect er gewoon afgehaald is. Ben benieuwd naar het effect ervan als ik dit nog ergens op de kop zou kunnen tikken of het dan ook werkt. Op zich rijdt de auto als ie warm is gewoon goed. ( duurt alleen wat langer)

Hoe is het verder met jouw W123, je was van plan eerst voor en dan achterzijde aan te pakken toch?

Groet, Guido
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 07 nov 2019, 21:34

Nou vandaag direct op het elektronisch klepje 12v gezet maar had ook geen resultaat. Heeft er iemand enig idee hoe aan het onderdeelnummer te komen? Of wellicht nog een goed exemplaar liggen? Het betreft het onderdeel waarvan ik een foto heb geüpload.
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor MBreed » 07 nov 2019, 23:06

Ik kan dat hele klepje niet terug vinden in de EPC. Zou ook niet weten wat voor nummer erbij hoort. Staat er ook niks op? De voeler moet je inderdaad gevoon de twee polen van de stekker van het voelertje doorverbinden. Is een massaschakeling over die aarde die je opnoemt. Die moet je dus ook laten zitten. Het zou zomaar kunnen dat het klepje lek is, maar ik kan hem nergens terugvinden. Blijft een gek verhaal.

Ja ik heb een hoop plannen. Zal wel niks worden. Heb de C nog niet eens op kenteken gezet. Veel te druk.
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 08 nov 2019, 10:53

Dank je voor het zoeken in ieder geval! Ik ga even verder zoeken.
Heb nu maar ( heel knullig) de buis vanaf het spruitstuk rechtstreeks op de inlaat verbonden. Zo blijft ie permanent op winterstand staan, Vanmorgen ging ie namelijk heel beroerd stationair draaien, wellicht met ca 2 graden toch te koud op zomerstand. Zou dat kwaad kunnen, de boel wordt namelijk niet heel heet( aanzuigbuis wordt nu gewoon handwarm, al weet ik niet wat ie na een lange snelwegrit doet..)
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Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Don » 08 nov 2019, 21:36

Ik heb een tijdje rondgereden zonder buis, dus altijd met koude lucht en merkte daar niet veel van. Vraag me af of daar je probleem zit.
Die Heizklappe gaf bij mij problemen; ook bij mij was het bimetaal verdwenen, dat was niet het grootste probleem; hij lekte uitlaatgas langs de as. Beetje noodoplossing toegepast; Heb toe de klep in de open stand laten vastlassen en de assen gasdicht laten maken; starten en koude loop zijn daardoor niet wezelijk veranderd. Misschien moet je het toch zoeken in je choke?
Don
 


Re: Automatische winterstand luchtinlaat m115 230 W123

Berichtdoor Guido » 13 nov 2019, 13:58

De heizklappenwelle is ( zo te horen) gasdicht, k blijf er maar vanaf, zolang het niet noodzakelijk is m open te maken. Ik moet zeggen dat nu de slang voorop het luchtfilterhuis gemonteerd zit, ie het weer goed doet ( tenminste net als voorheen)

Had eerder het chokehuis met de kl o k meegedraaid( rijker mengsel) hierdoor ging de motor alleen maar beroerder lopen dus snel weer teruggedraaid. Het vreemde is ook dat het stationair toerental bij koudstart niet hoger is dan bij warm. Is bij mij ook nooit anders geweest.

Ben benieuwd hoe het gaat als het echt koud is.
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