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W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617 : Techniek - 2

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Het is nu 25 jul 2024, 03:50

W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Alle techniek (mechanisch, elektronisch) zaken horen hier thuis.

Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor RD500sec » 19 aug 2023, 11:37

https://www.mvwautotechniek.nl/brandstofpomp_diesel/

Hier vind je een uitleg over de lijnpomp.

Ik heb het idee dat je met het demonteren en terug monteren de pomp ontregeld hebt, en dat je nu dit opnieuw moet doen maar volgens de juiste procedure.

https://www.google.nl/search?q=bosch+li ... MM&vssid=l

Nog een tekening van een Bosch lijnpomp
Met vriendelijke groet, Richard
RD500sec
Technisch adviseur
Technisch adviseur
 
Berichten: 1315
Geregistreerd: 03 okt 2014, 17:25
Woonplaats: gemeente Schagen
Roepnaam:
Type wagen: 230TE
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Automaat: Nee
LPG: Nee


Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 19 aug 2023, 15:57

Wat bedoel je met op hol slaan? Normaal gesproken als een oude diesel op hol slaat, gaat hij op z'n eigen motorolie lopen totdat het carter leeg is.
In plaats van een vod in de inlaat steken, druk dat tegen de uitlaat, dan kan het niet mee naar binnen gezogen worden.

Ik kan het zo niet beoordelen, maar ook het 'stop'stangetje kan niet goed ingehaakt zitten en juist gas geven. Hoe staat de gasklep als je hem laat lopen?
Ik zou geen thinner gebruikt hebben, eerder een heleboel wd40. Is wat minder schraal.
Ik zou ook de olie eens aflaten. Olie is voor de smering van de motor, als die is doordrenkt van thinner dan heft dat elkaar op.
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JantjeV8
Platinum Boarder
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Berichten: 4359
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Type wagen: 230TE
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 21 aug 2023, 13:12

Ik heb een tweedehands pomp gevonden. Enkel de laatste nummers wijken af. Het is van een 300D uit 1981. Motor nummer is zelfde. Pomp ziet er exact hetzelfde uit.
Ik heb naar Büchli gebeld en ze zeiden met dat ik inderdaad beter van die elementen rond de zuigers had afgebleven. Revisie prijs is moeilijk in te schatten maar ik zou toch minstens 600 eur kwijt zijn. Daarom tweedehands aanschaffen.
Zou de afwijkende nummers een probleem vormen. Ik zal het ook eens aan de verkoper vragen.
Erik.
Bijlagen
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ERIK123
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Berichten: 200
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 21 aug 2023, 17:04

Iemand een idee waar ik kan terugvinden of deze pomp past voor mijn voertuig? Misschien op de WIS?
Anders morgen bij de MB dealer eens bevragen. Moet mijn leasing binnenbrengen voor onderhoud…
Erik
ERIK123
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Berichten: 200
Geregistreerd: 13 jul 2007, 21:30
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Roepnaam:
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 23 aug 2023, 13:44

Hallo Erik,
Ik kom net terug van vakantie en nu lees ik je relaas...

Helaas heb je je pomp behoorlijk om zeep geholpen terwijl die alleem maar vast zat door het lange stilstaan.
Vandaar ook mijn advies om eerst de wagen aan te slepen en zo de plunjers los te krijgen zonder alles te verstellen.
Als je de Hulzen waar de plunjers in zitten verdraait klopt de inspuiting niet meer. de Pomp moet dan afgesteld worden op een testbank. De nieuwere M/RSF pomp heeft zowiezo eerder de neiging om te gaan zagen en wellicht ook op hol te slaan bij verstelling. Inderdaad, zoals Wiebren al zei, zit deze pomp ook op het oliecircuit aangesloten. Vandaar de thinner in je olie.

Je hebt nu 2 opties denk ik, je eigen pomp laten afstellen op een Bosch testbank, ze zetten er dan ook meteen nieuwe ringetjes etc in en hij is weer helemaal gelijkmatig ingeregeld. (Bv. bij Keizer motorenrevisie)
Of idd een gebruikte vervangende pomp inbouwen.

Groeten Math
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testbank injectiepomp.png
testbank injectiepomp.png (342.94 KiB)

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rubber ringen eerst over de schroefdraad doen.
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Wiebren240D » 24 aug 2023, 16:00

Hoi Erik

ik heb mijn twijfels over de pomp die je hebt aangeschaft.
gaat misschien wel draaien maar de nummers zijn niet gelijk.
ik deed de ouwe mrsf pomp naar een bosch dienst brengen en kijken wat er nog te reden is.

wens je suc6 met herstel
met de groeten van Wiebren ut Snits
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Wiebren240D » 25 aug 2023, 16:30

goeie middag Erik


de brandstofpomp die je hebt aangeschaft kan je gerust op je 300D OM 617 blok zetten.
het verschil zit hem in de versnelling bak je hebt een handschakel bak en de andere pomp hoort oficieel achter een automaatische versnelling bak.
een pomp met het Bosch nummer RS 105 is voor de gewone versnelling bak en de pomp met het RS 108 nummer komt van een automaat.
en moeie bij komstigheid is is nog dat de automaatpompen veel minder slijten
Bij de handbak bij overschakelen steeds gas los en weer gas geven.

wens je suc6 met het herstel
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 26 aug 2023, 08:56

Top Wiebren voor de goede info. Ik kon de pompnummers zo snel nergens vinden.

Nu zal Erik wel vooruit kunnen.

Groeten Math
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 30 aug 2023, 18:05

Merci voor de info mannen!!
Ik heb het genoegen gehad om van JantjeV8 dezelfde injectiepomp te krijgen als degene die ik kon kopen. Hij had er nog ergens eentje liggen. Dus ik ben zondag bij hem langsgegaan met een bakje bier in ruil. Nogmaals bedankt Jan!
Nu ben ik me suf aan het zoeken achter de benodigde pakkingen, ringetjes en de juiste o-ring.
En aan het lezen over het hoe vervangen en vooral het afstellen achteraf. Bij de om617 moet oliefilterhuis er ook af Wegens plaatsgebrek veronderstel ik. Ik dacht een pakkingset te kopen van Bosch voor zulke pomp, maar is niet te vinden.
Ik ga me terug abonneren op EPC en de juiste nummers doorgeven aan autotoebehoren zaak. Wat ze niet hebben, kan ik bij mb dealer wel kopen zou ik denken?
Als er iemand een goede link naar YouTube of forumonderwerp weet, mag je gerust met me delen. Dikwijls gaat het over de andere pompmodellen. Ik heb me ondertussen al uren bijgeschoold over de werking van plunjerpompen. Dus toch weeral wat slimmer geworden, dat wel.
Erik
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Wietse » 30 aug 2023, 23:17

Ik had ooit een keer dat die ook op hol sloeg. Maar ik had de auto toen heel lang, heel schuin op gekrikt. De rechter achterkant omhoog. uitendelijk weer terug op zijn wielen, en toen gestart. toen gebeurde dit.
een vriend van mij die veel over MB diesels weet, vertelde toen dat de regelstang in de brandstofpomp waarschijnlijk volgas verschoven was, en gelukkig weer op zijn plek kwam.
gelukkig werkte mijn sleutel starter goed en de koude motor draaide 5 seconden maximaal.

verder kan ik je er niks over vertellen, gelukkig draait die lekker zonder problemen
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 31 aug 2023, 11:49

Je hoeft je niet perse te abboneren, er is ook best veel algemeen te vinden. Ik denk dat als je zelf de onderdeelnummers bij elkaar sprokkelt, de MB dealer je ook verder kan helpen.

https://webautocats.com/epc/Mercedes/1/ ... 23105318#1
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 04 sep 2023, 22:27

Bedankt voor de info. Zo heb ik alle onderdeelnummers gevonden en kunnen bestellen. Lange zoektocht. Uiteindelijk in Denemarken moeten bestellen. Had waarschijnlijk bij de dealer ook wel terecht gekunnen, maar kon daar het druppel pijpje ook kopen.
Ik heb een goede leidraad gevonden over de twee manieren van op tijd zetten van de pomp: druppelmethode en luchtbellen methode. Ik ga alvast oefenen op de oude pomp die nu nog gemonteerd is.


En de regelstang zit niet vast. Ik heb een hulpinjector van de pomp gedraaid en onderaan zie ik de plunjer een kwartslag verdraaien als ik de gashendel open zet. Wel bedankt voor de tip, dat wou ik zeker checken.
Als mijn onderdelen arriveren, zal ik de onderdeelnummers hier ook posten en waar ik ze gekocht heb. Dat kan misschien ooit nog iemand anders verder helpen. Ik heb er lang naar gezocht althans. Ik heb bij HBM ook een set van die kromme, haakse sleutels gekocht voor de 4 bevestigingen van de pomp. Het kan maar helpen.
Het echte werk zal dus voor volgende week zijn. Ik houd jullie op de hoogte met eventueel wat best practices.
Nogmaals enorm veel dank voor al jullie hulp.
Erik
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 01 okt 2023, 22:14

Vandaag progressie gemaakt. De andere injectiepomp gemonteerd. Dat ging eerlijk gezegd vanzelf hem er terug in schuiven. Voldoende gekanteld zodat afstellen in twee richtingen nog mogelijk was. Omdat een drip leiding niet meer te verkrijgen is heb ik de kortste ijzeren leiding gebruikt. Ik heb er een doorzichtig plastic slangetje aan gemaakt. Beetje verwarmd met haardrogers om het erop te krijgen en heb ik de belletjes methode toegepast voor de perfecte timing. Ik heb de eerste hulpinjector eruit gedraaid om de check valve te verwijderen en terug gemonteerd. Een bokaal water. Ik heb de feeder banjo bout losgemaakt aan de brandstoffilter om in te kunnen blazen d.m.v. een teut van een kitflacon. Een beetje de pomp verdraaien en je merkt dat er geen belletjes zijn. Tot op het punt dat er net belletjes ontstaan. Ik heb ze nog niet verder vastgezet maar alvast de afstelling geprobeerd met succes dus. Duurt eigenlijk maar enkele seconden voor ze goed staat.
Eerstdaags oliefilterhuis terug monteren, nieuwe olie erin en dan eerst starten zonder de leidingen om te zien of ze alle vijf diesel spuiten. Zoniet haal ik de desbetreffende hulpinjector eruit om te zien of de check valves niet vast zitten ofwel de zuigertjes niet vastzitten. Maar ik zal zeker de elementen rond de zuigers niet meer aanraken (!).
Erik
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 03 okt 2023, 07:07

Bedankt voor de terugmelding Erik.

je kunt de pomp op veel manieren instellen :handgestures-thumbup:

Een druppelleidinkje heb ik destijds zelf gemaakt van een oude inspuitleiding.

Groeten Math en veel succes met het starten later!
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Weizengelb
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 03 okt 2023, 11:12

Merci Math.
Ik heb er een filmpje over gemaakt in het Engels. Het is wat stuntelig, maar ik ga het misschien op YouTube zetten om er anderen mee te helpen. Ik heb van de blaastechniek er verder op het web nergens iets over gevonden, vandaar.
Maar ik ga eerst afwachten of het resultaat effectief is. Ik ga eerst olieleidingen en oliekoeler nog ledigen en carterpan alvorens oliefilterhuis terug te monteren zodat ik van al die vervuilde olie met thinner vanaf ben. Dus volgende week ergens hopelijk een mooie opstart van de auto.
Erik
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 03 nov 2023, 15:44

Hallo jongens. Missie geslaagd en ondertussen in de buurt wat rondgereden. Plots bleef hij op volgas hangen. Gelukkig vlak voor mijn deur. Ik kon hem deze keer wel met de sleutel stilleggen. Regulateur zit dus vast vanbinnen, veronderstel ik. Met benzine of purgeer trachten vol te pompen en wat laten weken?
De rijervaring was niet slecht. Maar toch nog iets teveel rook. Misschien eens op purgeer laten draaien (als vorige probleem opgelost is). Mogelijk kunnen de injecteurs zo wat mooier inspuiten. Anders moeten ze eruit.
Ofwel staat de timing van de pomp niet juist. Maar die zou ik moeten goed gezet hebben, ga ik vanuit.
Erik
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 03 nov 2023, 18:13

Het gas dat bleef hangen, was snel opgelost. De veer die gashendel op stationair trekt, hing er niet meer aan. Toen ik ging vergelijken met mijn oude injectiepomp zag ik het meteen.
Erik
Bijlagen
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ERIK123
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Berichten: 200
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor ERIK123 » 10 nov 2023, 14:24

Om mijn injectoren te reinigen, zou ik dieselreiniger additief willen gebruiken. Maar ik zou hem er puur op willen laten draaien. Als die in mijn tank moet, dan duurt het te lang voor ik resultaat heb. De wagen is nog niet ingeschreven dus kan ook geen grote ritten ermee doen. Stoot nog iets te veel uit en ik wil dat in orde brengen voor de technische keuring.
Mag ik zoiets puur gebruiken? Of beetje verdunnen met diesel?
Iemand ervaring?
Merci. Erik
ERIK123
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor Weizengelb » 12 nov 2023, 10:17

Hallo Erik,

Puur lijkt me niet zo goed, misschien smeert het helemaal niet en is je pomp straks weer kapot.
Voor minder roet zou ik premium diesel tanken voor de keuring. Verder zorgen dat je uitlaat goed schoon ǵebrand' is, voor de keuring een goed stuk snelweg rijden.

Groeten Math
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Weizengelb
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Re: W123 300D brandstofpomp werkt niet OM617

Berichtdoor JantjeV8 » 13 nov 2023, 08:28

Heb je de verstuivers al getest Erik? Kan hij alleen maar beter van worden, even af laten persen en opnieuw de openingsdrukken laten instellen. Dan weet je in elk geval zeker dat het 'm daar niet meer in zit.
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